Tick Tock Tick Tock
When is it going to finally happen. I am guessing around the 2012 elections; the republican party will finally split. I say this as they are battling within themselves over the current immigration reform laws that are in consideration in both the house and senate right now. That and the democrats really don’t have anything besides “liberal”, well that and Joe Lieberman.Â
What really kills me is that the majority leader, Bill Frist, has
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“offered legislation that would tighten border security and increase penalties on US employers who hire illegal immigrants but would not increase the annual quota of legal migrants.â€
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While at the same time pledging to allow a vote that:
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“would allow as many as 400,000 new workers to come to the US legally each year. The bill would also provide a path for some 11m immigrants who are already in the country illegally to acquire legal status and eventual citizenship after paying fines and facing long delays.†(ref)
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Before I continue…. 11 Million illegal immigrants?!?! Good Lord, how did ya miss that coming across the borders?! Also let me point out the quick fact that in the last month  60,000 illegals were caught attempting to cross a section of the border in Arizona. That is one small section of that great big line down there folks. Tell me we don’t have a problem!
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Back to the Frist issue, it doesn’t look that bad in difference but one is like a pit bull and one is like a Chihuahua. One slams the fist down and attacks the demand side of the immigration supply/demand battle and one just makes it easier to become a citizen and not do anything to discourage illegal immigration. I guess it’s all how you look at the problem.
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In the end, I am waiting for the republicans to split into libertarians and moderates or conservatives and moderates or “those who give a damn†and “those who want to be friends with the liberalsâ€.
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Another thing that is killing me is that the Republican party and politicians in general are worrying about the Hispanic vote with the legislation that is going on over illegal immigration. Now if I was a legal citizen and saw illegals getting the same treatment I was but not paying for it (emergency rooms come to mind) I would be all about getting the punks out of the country. Not to mention all that you had to go through to become a legal citizen! So if the legals have this mind set, it would seem to me that they would vote for reform. So who are the politicians worrying about? Well it couldn’t be the illegals that somehow vote in our elections……or could it? Nooooo */saracasm*Â
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And what in the hell was immigration doing during all these protests this past week.. Do ya think that there was a good chance of a high turnout of illegals at these gatherings. Like flies to honey! I thought it would have been fun to start screaming “Immigra!” in the middle of the crowd just to start a stampede……but then again I wasn’t there. Like it matters though, all immigration does is send them back over the border like a big game of chutes and ladders. “Sorry, we caught ya this time, try again!”. I think we should take the Katrina relief funds that will be overexaggerated by the government and the chocolate city, dig a trench 20 feet deep along the entire border, pave it, and put motion sensor guns on it. Big signs everywhere like THIS ONE, and if ya can’t read english, well ya should have figured that out before you tried coming across the border! I may seem biggoted in my view but I deal with this every day, people screaming at me about their machines being broken ( I think)…..in spanish. Now I am supposed to accomodate them and learn their language (I already had in school) so that I can fix their machine. Hell No! You enter America, you had better understand and speak a little English, the rest you can learn as you go, but a little effort would be nice. I am sick of hearing how we have to accomodate people who blatantly disrespect our country and government.
DEEP BREATHS……..I need to stop, could go on all day, but I won’t.
Anyway, looking forward to see the government fold under the pressures of the hispanic vote and just make citizenship just that much easier. Let’s just put Citizenship cards in fucking Cracker Jack boxes!!!
OUT!!
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March 29th, 2006 at 11:14 pm
DITTO!!!
March 30th, 2006 at 4:57 pm
Silly Brad, we want to punish Corporations who hire illegals! We don’t want to stop illegals from entering the country, we just don’t want them to find jobs once they get here. Who else will live in LA? We don’t want them to have jobs, we want them robbing, killing, stealing, and pushing drugs. What will all those cops do if there was no crime? Oooh, linking illegal immigration to crime, what have I done????
March 30th, 2006 at 5:55 pm
well that was a mouthful.
I never knew you were so dang republican.
if only you would have said, “NUKE’EM”…
March 30th, 2006 at 11:56 pm
I think the Wha-Nobrainer card for 202X i becoming mor and more of a reality. He can be the one with a few eccentricities that attract some groups, I’ll be the Joe Average with a fw blotches on my background that folks cna relate to but at hte same time, respect in odd ways for taking a stand. I think Orange will be in the Cabinet somehwere, I don’t know, maybe as homeland defense guy or something. Anyone else in? I think a trip back to the friendly confies of Whatown are in order for this one.
March 31st, 2006 at 12:49 pm
All I ask is that before either side does anything rash, that everyone all gets together and re-learns (or for some, learn for the first time) their history. The issue of integrating and accepting “non natives” into a society has plagued civilization since people began keeping track. Ultimiately, things split down to those who have, and those who have not. Typically, the former has been outnumbered by the latter by staggering factors. Also typically, the have-nots find a way to disrupt the status quo, often at great loss for BOTH. My point is, “Do Nothing” is not an option, but neither is “screw’em”.
Keep in mind, this is NOT just an immigration problem - there are far more U.S citizens who live below the poverty line then there are illegals. Go to ANY inner-city hospital (or country bumpkin one), and see how many “illegals” are getting treatment in the ER vs. non-illegals.
To sum up - poor is poor, and it matters very little how they got there. The question needs to be: Where are they going, and what do we as a society need to do to get them there, if anything at all?
If that statement makes me a lefty liberal in some people’s eyes, then so be it. We don’t get the luxory of defining for others how we choose to be seen…
March 31st, 2006 at 2:07 pm
Sometimes I think the real problem, Andy, is that the realities which we inhabit are 180° out of phase. What, precisely, is “rash” about enforcing our own gosh-darn laws? Why must “solutions” always involve we, as an American people, sanctioning illegal and un-American (as the blatantly pro-Mexico rallies held this past weekend showed) activities?
And it’s not a rich-vs.-poor thing, unless you’re talking about the rich Castillian-descended ruling/political class in Mexico that is doing its utmost to dump its “inferior” population of poor Mestizos on we suckers north of the Rio Grande. What a great, racist foreign policy on the part of the white Mexican gov’t - “We, frankly, despize those mixed blood half-Indians and, since we can’t be bothered to clean our own house and make Mexico an attractive place for people to live and work, we’ll just actively encourage them to go North. Stupid gringoes will pay for anything!”
Well I, for one, am sick of it. We’re not running a charity state here, and every bleedin’ illegal alien that comes across that border cheapens my citizenship by proxy. Build the wall, make Mexico deal with its own problems (hey, they just found all that oil in the Gulf - maybe they can pull an Alaska and send everyone a voucher at the end of every year), and then we finally may end up getting someplace.
And spare me any crocodile tears for the poor American companies “dependent” on cheap Mexican labor. They’re actively participating in breaking Federal law and making it harder for the legal citizens of the US. They can go down in flames for all I care - they’re using my tax dollars to subsidize their illegal activities.
April 1st, 2006 at 9:16 am
Andy, I agree that the poor is poor, but by allowing the large corporations to continue and employee the illegals is what is making the poor, poor. With the low wages, the illegals who are pipelining the money back to their homeland and paying limited, if any, taxes are driving the cost of labor down. Minimum wage doesn’t have to go anywhere because there are tons of people working for less than that. As for the whole migrant thing, I don’t mind them coming into our country and sharing in what everyone is coming here for, but when they do not go about it legally and bypass our laws so that they can expect us to accomodate their needs, that is when I get annoyed. When we have (assumed) illegals protesting against our government over immigration laws because it is unfair to them, I find issue with it. When they fly a Mexican flag over an overturned United States flag on a High School in Texas, I have issue with them. And when they continuously expect us to adjust to their lifestyles (language, television, radio) while they do not even try to speak the accepted language of this great nation I get annoyed. Basically I am annoyed on two fronts, one is with this country and it’s weak stance on the immigration laws and how we eagerly accept the onslaught that is the immigration problem. The second is the immigrants themselves assuming that since they are here, that they should get all ACLU’d and scream about their rights and what they want. I of course have to look at myself every time I speak spanish to someone that can’t or won’t speak english so that I can keep my business running, or when I see Dora the Explorer teaching children how to speak spanish. But that is for another post sometime. In the end, I believe that there may be a middle ground in immigration of the two parties but both are too afraid of the hispanic (I say this as the large part of illegals are hispanic) vote and the repercussions that could result of any decision other than some mass amnesty. I do hope that as much effort as needed is placed into this issue as it is a threat to our nation, ranging from security to employment to life in general as the resulting possible inflation of goods and services will be drastic (but better for our nation I believe).
April 1st, 2006 at 9:22 am
Therein lies the problem again: you made it an immigrant issue. Specifically a mexican immigrant isssue.
I have no problems enforcing the laws that are in place. The issue is really two fold:
1) If you want to go around and round up all of the illegals and boot them out, in one fell swoop, you will have to convince me that the next day will be like the former. It’s not just the illegals whose lives are being upended, nor do I think it would be only the illegals who get royally ticked-off. Chaos is NOT preferable to what we have today. Again, a I said before, do nothing is clearly not an option, and I am not saying amnesty for all is viable either (VERY bad precedent). But rounding them up and booting them out reeks of very many bad things.
2) You completely glossed over the point of my statement: Illegals are not the big drain on the U.S economy that many of you would like them to be. Yes, it IS a problem, and yes, we do cater to them more then we should. BUT (and if I could isolate that font to be about 20 point, I would) There are FAR FAR FAR more people (based on that 11 million #) in the U.S who are not only here legally, but were most likely born on this soil and not first generation, who use/abuse the same systems that illegals have. I will say it again: Poor is poor.
Why is there such an effort to paint with such a broad stroke? As we learned in Iraq - you can’t go in and destabilize wihout a civil plan ready to execute. You will find the same holds here - you get rid of one problem only to find that another issue was there all along. You can not fix immigration without tackling poverty at home, if for no other reason then you can’t deport EVERYONE. And if the arguements you insist on using can’t be applied to all, then they should be applied to no one.
April 1st, 2006 at 11:33 am
I agree that if we happened to get all illegals out of the country that there is no guarantee that everything would be hunky dory. In fact, with the absence of the illegals we would immediately have to deal with those poor who are American citizens and would be in part welfare leeches (ahem New Orleans) who don’t work because they too expect the government to take care of them.
I guess through this long conversation I am reviewing my input and not really seeing where I said that we need to get em all out at the same time. But the troublemakers and ones who blatantly disregard our systems should be out until they want to play by the rules. Those who are actively engaging in the system and attempting to assimilate may get some leway, with possible financial debts or sacrifices at the beginning. My focus is mainly on the control that has to be set in place and what needs to be done to ensure the future immigration policies and the people entering this country not having the “You serve me” mentality when it is us as a country who they are coming to support.
Immigrants made this country what it is, and those immigrants became proud Americans. The immigrants of today are not becoming Americans, they are becoming displaced citizens of their home country. They don’t appreciate the country, the language, the laws. They speak poorly of the land that they came to for opportunity and when it doesn’t fit their fancy they get all uppity. Well if ya don’t like it, get the hell out.
As for my stance on the wall/moat/gate on the border, I think that is firm. If we make a law on illegal immigration, broadcast it and everyone knows about it and they come and try to get across and end up getting injured, well can’t say we didn’t warn ya.
But then again I was blessed to be born in the greatest land there is and don’t know the hardships that they have to endure. So in the end I am a blind arrogant American pig. But the really sad thing is that even modern Americans are lacking in appreciation for their history and country as seen in this quote:
“A national survey, sponsored by the new McCormick Tribune Freedom Museum, found that most of us can name at least two members of the “The Simpsons,” but only one in four can name two of the freedoms guaranteed under the First Amendment. And that’s not including the right to drive a car. . .or own a pet. ”
FULL REPORT(after reading it, I may have another post about American ignorance!!)
Reeaaaal nice Clark.
April 2nd, 2006 at 12:28 pm
I was not saying that you or Zam were explicitly calling for max deportation, or lynchings, or whatever other Bad Things (TM) could come. I completely agree with the laws as they are, and even for a little tightening of the security around both borders. I also completely agree that Americans, for the most part, take many tenets of our way of life for granted, and even elevate some privaledges to “right-hood”.
I just get worried when the level heads are pushed aside (again, not saying YOU were doing the pushing, or even that you are not a level head) in the name of pandering. This works on BOTH sides, as I don’t think for a second there aren’t some people taking advantage of the situation on the Latino side and inciting some rucus based on false information.
We all know that socialism doesn’t work. Look at France to see what happens. So I think we can all agree that giving things to any and all takers is just silly. Somewhere, there is a middle ground, as you say. At this point in time, I have no clue what that place looks like, I just know it’s there…guarded by the knights who say NI!
April 2nd, 2006 at 12:43 pm
Yes but France is using like 70% nuclear power so….yeah they’ve got that going for em.
What we need is a We’re an anarcho-syndicalist commune. you can understand it better through THIS reading. indeed!
April 2nd, 2006 at 12:55 pm
The problem, Andy, is that you’re conflating two problems and thus exacerbating both. Yes, we have poor people in this country. Mexico also has more than their fair share of poor and downtrodden, who the Mexican gov’t is doing their level best to move here. As long as anyone continues to think the way you do (”poor is poor”), we will continue to enable Mexico’s anti-national integrity behavior.
Mexico’s poor flooding into this country are exacerbating the problem for our poor. Why should we have to be burdened by Vicente’s problems?
Quick fact: we actually see about 900,000 illegal immigrants come across our southern border each year, not the 400,000 that the press has been tossing around. That 400k - 450k figure is net - between deaths, incarceration, deportations and just plain reverse-migration, we “lose” about 450,000 Mexican illegals per year. If we build the fence and keep the vast majority out, the problem will go a long way towards solving itself simply through attrition.
April 2nd, 2006 at 2:06 pm
Harumph!
April 2nd, 2006 at 5:21 pm
How about this: Illegal lives up to it’s name. If an illegal alien commits a crime and is arrested and upon investigation is found to be an illegal, they get deported. If an illegal attempts to get a job and, along with hopefully new measures to check citizenship, is found to be an illegal, they don’t get the job. They might even get reported to authorities. Illegals don’t get anything that is supported by tax payers dollars, education, medical, etc… If we cut em off, they will find their lives here even more miserable than in their home land. They can stay, but their life is gonna be hell trying to get by. Yeah it’s the land of milk and honey but ya gotta be part of the team to get some of the bounty!
April 3rd, 2006 at 10:07 am
AO: I agree, and in fact believe many of the laws on record indeed to that, just INS (now DHS) was SOOO behind that they just started handwaving.
Doug: The plight of the Mexican people is indeed worse then our own. The issue is indeed along the lines of what you speak - the overwhelming minority of people in Mexico run the place.
So.
Why are we not encouraging the masses to find a leader and raise them up? Oh yeah. The guerillas in the South. So “regime change” isn’t really in the best interests - current power isn’t what the country needs, but it is better then any of the alternatives (and yes, I am aware of the irony in that statement when compared to our “containment” of Saddam). We are left with really 2 things: Isolating ourselves from them, or investing in them. Neither are working today -
Isolating (wall) may provide temporary relief, but then you will get boat people, or otherwise creative ways. So unless we are willing to SHOOT ALL people coming near our borders (something I am not willing to endorse at this time), we’ve just made the hole smaller…and as many of here should remember, if you don’t decrease the flow, then making the hole smaller just increases the pressure.
Investing would work to decrease the flow. But as we’ve seen, it hasnb’t worked yet. I think the biggest problem is pure economics. Companies go to mexico because the labor is cheaper then the U.S, but it is close. This has helped the northern provinces of Mexico, to some extent, but has completely left out the South (remember, we have major political problems there) because it is SO far away with not so good infrastructure, that you’d have to ship by boat, and if you are shipping by boat, why not go to asia?
Maybe the solution is something we tried before, but with a twist. Maybe we need a “Buy Mexican” campaign…